He loves his hats and cigars as well as life's challenges. Known as 'The Negotiator' among his colleagues, Nitish Mukherjee, executive director, Orchard Advertising, is one person unlikely to be seen losing control - ever. He's the kind whom his friends would naturally turn to for advice even if they did not know about his faith in the 'integrity of counsel' or his respect for the 'principle for synectics'. In this interview to Shamni Pande agencyfaqs!, 44-year old Mukherjee talks about why Orchard is different and what it takes to build a brand - be it an advertising agency or a four-wheeler.

Q. Not many know about your path breaking effort in social communication, in creating one of the largest condom brands in the country after Nirodh - Masti. Have you always been committed to the cause of social communication?

A. It would be a travesty of truth to say that a single person is responsible for what happens to a brand. But it's also a fact that at one point in time social marketing accounts came to agencies because someone knew someone in that agency and actually wanted you to do a favour by taking on that business. I had already worked on Nirodh at Contract - I had worked on some brands of ITC, which in turn was marketing it in certain part of India. So when PG Ramachandran of PSI India wanted us (that is, Contract in 1985-86) to handle this business it automatically came into my group.

At that point there wasn't even a brand name, no pack design, nothing. The whole evolution is extremely interesting. When we slipped in the name 'Masti' into the research, results suggested there was no hope for the name. Everything bad was associated with the word 'Masti' - it could be associated with a guy who's a vagabond in a village but not a mature, responsible, 'Nirodh-kind' of person. It went with a negative research report to Washington, with actually recommendations for other names such as Lion and Tiger. I must thank some lady there, whose name I do not remember now, who actually marked this part and send it back saying, "Don't you think this irresponsibility is a lot more fun than what the other names suggest?" That's how the brand first got established.

As far as the condom's connotation of 'empowerment for men' was concerned, I think the credit goes to a tangawalla. One evening when we were having a group discussion with some rickshaw pullers and tangawallas in Bengali Market in Delhi, it was one of those guys who actually gave us the first germ of an idea. Out of this stemmed the line "Masti ne banaya hamein marzi ka maalik". This ad remained unchanged for many, many years. Though PSI did a wonderful job of creating an excellent distribution network, it was with 'Masti' that for the first time a condom brand actually talked about the empowerment of man and fun (in its segment). It sought to appeal to male ego - condoms were no longer prescriptive. He did not use it because someone had asked him to; he chose to do so for his own convenience. He was in control of his own destiny.

Q. What is your contribution to building the Contract brand?

A. I don't think it would be fair to comment on this. Because there were people like Ambar Brahmachari, Syeda Imam and Digvijay Ghosh at the helm. But yes, I was part of a very close-knit team, and I got a lot of experience in seeing a complete start-up operation function and grow. Four years later when I left, Contract was a really happening place.

Q. The Ulka experience would have been very different in the sense it was well established when you joined?

A. It was great because Arvind Wable, who was a client of mine and had seen me closely, made me an offer to join Ulka, which he had also joined. I joined FCB-Ulka in 1989 when it was going through a complete management overhaul with Anil Kapoor as the managing director. So while Contract was a start-up, Ulka was really a turnaround story. I joined it as account director. It was interesting as I got to work on almost every kind of account. I worked on LML and while in Mumbai, I worked on Sundrop, Santoor, Birla White, Goodlass Nerolac.

However, achievements seem like what they are at that point in time; when you look back you realise it was just a job done right. For instance, my association with LML goes back a long way - to my stint at Frank Simoes Advertising. That time we were two people in Delhi (at Frank Simoes) - Rohinton Kanga was manger and I was an account executive. We pitched and won LML. When the brand was launched, it gave the company an initial collection (in terms of bookings for Vespa XE) in excess of Rs 105 crore - that was never heard of before or after. Then I lost touch with the company; but when I came back to Ulka, we pitched for the business again. We first got only the corporate bit, but gradually we got the entire business. The turnaround story of course is extremely well known. Out of my 11 years at FCB-Ulka, I headed the team for nine years.

Q. So challenge seems to be a recurring theme in your life?

A. I am passionate about challenges. If you notice, every change in my life has been driven by a sense of challenge. In retrospect, I realise that every move for me has been a discontinuous move, driven by a sense of challenge. For example, when I first moved from Ulka in 1983/84, the agency was almost at hitting distance from HTA (now JWT) to emerge as No 2 in Delhi. So it was a very good job, with a very good agency. I decided then to move off to a start-up agency - Contract. With the benefit of hindsight it seems like a good move because Contract grew phenomenally. When I wanted to move back to Ulka in 1989, I still remember what Ram Sehgal (then president, Contract) said, "You've fought with your back against the wall; now is your time to enjoy it! Why do you want to leave?

What I am saying is I was in an extremely comfortable position then, I was part of the core-group, I had great respect for the people there, but a bigger challenge made me leave. I moved to a different city, a different culture. So it's never been a linear progression in my life.

Q. How did Orchard happen?

A. I joined Orchard in the year 2000, when it had just been set up as the second agency of Leo Burnett. Before that I was with FCB-Ulka and at the end of 11 very challenging years in Delhi and Mumbai, I had come to a level where there seemed to be a glass ceiling above, in terms of growth. More importantly, I found life had become very comfortable, very predictable and I did not want to continue doing what I was doing for the rest of my life. That's the time when I met Arvind Sharma (managing director, Leo Burnett India) and we talked about it for a long time, before I took my decision to actually join as director on the board of TLG India with independent responsibility of developing Orchard Advertising, a new venture of Leo Burnett India in association with Dentsu of Japan.

I think what was exciting about it was that it was a challenge again, a complete antithesis of what I was doing. From a huge operation, with a lot of people and business, we were talking about almost a start-up situation and making it grow. And I knew that in this particular assignment the buck would really stop at me. That was exciting! What also excited me was that Orchard was going to go forward with very close co-operation with Dentsu. So here was this great Western creative agency on one side, and on the other was Dentsu, a single agency brand, with a very different philosophy. The task of making them come together and taking it forward seemed a thrilling prospect to me.

Q. You talked about two different philosophies in Leo Burnett and Dentsu. Can you elaborate?

A. I don't think the word is different. They were actually two diverse cultures coming together and that itself created an opportunity for something new and interesting. For instance, if you ask me how I should describe Orchard, then there are many ways in which I would do so. I think the one thing that makes it truly different from all other agencies is the Principle of Synectics, because as someone rightly said, creativity is the capacity to grasp mutually distinct realities and draw a spark from their juxtaposition.

I think it is not about finding differences, but taking the similarities forward. And that's very exciting. Also, if you look at the composition of Orchard today, it's a very different agency from the other agencies that you have in the south. Most of the people here are not ones who've always been operating in this market. In fact, you would find that most people here have worked all across, or have been born and brought up in a completely different part of India. They are not just people who have lived in big metros but are also from small towns. I think that's what makes the difference. We have endeavoured to have a truly national team added to which is the fact that you have two truly international brands working together in close proximity. That's why I feel that this is truly a 'crucible of synectics'.

Q. So what is the culture you are trying to inculcate at Orchard?

A. I think we have set for ourselves a clear mandate in terms of what we want to be. However, it is not a personality-led culture. Therefore, I wouldn't be right to say that "I" define the culture. I think "we" define a culture for Orchard and it would be there irrespective of who heads it today, tomorrow or day after. As I said, we had the singular advantage, the singular difference to begin with, which was we were bringing together two large agencies, two different agencies together. Both brought something to the table, and that itself creates something different.

In terms of the mandate, the first thing we told ourselves is that as we grow we need to have sustainable business. To have sustainable businesses, we must grow in a manner in which we can handle growth, to the satisfaction of our clients. That is why I said, it was important to us not just to get business, but to get quality business. If you see the kind of acquisitions we've had, they are all significant businesses, established brands. The one thing that we passionately believe here at Orchard, which comes as much from Leo Burnett as Dentsu, is the 'Integrity of Counsel'. This means that I should have the ability to give to my client what I consider to be sound advice. On the one hand, it means the rigour of work that we need to put in, on the other, it means a great relationship with the client. It also means the ability to turn around and tell your client you made a mistake, and for your client to take it as just that and nothing else.

If you build a relationship of trust with your client and when your clients know you will give them what you believe is sound counsel, they will also understand that there are times, when one or the other in that relationship might take a decision which may not completely be the right one. But this Integrity of Counsel does not necessarily mean being at loggerheads with your client. It cannot mean there cannot be differing points of view on the table. Going back to what I said before, that is part of the principle of synectics. At the end of the day, when you take a decision, everyone must fall behind it.

Q. What is the hallmark of Orchard? Is it creative-led, research or strategy-led?

A. This is how we describe Orchard to ourselves: This is where brand ideas bear fruit. We believe that we need to be partners in our client's growth. If you talk about being partners in growth, if you talk about integrity of counsel, if you talk about crucible of synectics, then it means complete involvement in the client's business at every level. This is part of the reason why we are choosy and not keen on signing on too many businesses. We want few, but quality businesses. And we want to be dead sure that we add our might to those businesses.

To precisely answer your question whether we are a creative-led or a strategy-led, I don't think you have to be one of the two. Clearly, you need to understand the client, its problem and find a solution to it and until and unless you take a leap in terms of your creative, there is no way that you will be able to help your client grow exponentially.

Take the example of what we have done on Top Ramen. Very few people would have expected a breakthrough with the kind of commercial we did in the Maggie-dominated category that was all about mother and child. This actually made the sales go up by 30 per cent after the commercial was launched. Take the example of our work for Coke in Tamil Nadu that won us the EFFIES last year. It is based on a very basic truth rooted in Tamil Nadu; at the same time we have made it entertaining. We made a great connect with the people there and that is the reason the brand has done well there and won the only EFFIES that perhaps any agency in the south has ever won. It was an award for work that is not national in nature, but regional, which did not even see the light of day in either English or Hindi.

Q. It would be interesting to know your take on advertising awards.

A. We will participate in the Abbys probably from this year. We have not been active so far as we did not have a huge body of work to enter many categories. However, we will not participate in all the award/contests. We will take a decision on the international awards when the time comes.

Q. What is the exact nature of Orchard's relationship with Leo Burnett? Would you, for instance, compete and pitch for the same business?

A. Here again I would give credit to Arvind Sharma. Part of the reason why he possibly kept Orchard in Bangalore (apart from the fact that Toyota has its base here) with no presence of Leo Burnett here was to avoid conflict in this theatre. This has allowed us the very vital space to grow and come into our own, from which we can springboard into other cities. Eventually we might have a situation where each stands for itself in Bangalore too. But right now, that issue does not really come up. It was an intelligent move, because the test of every second agency today seems to be whether they can fight the mother brand that set them up.

Q. There is this perception that the Japanese make for very difficult clients. They are conservative, unwilling to try new communication ideas. Is it tough handling a client like Toyota?

A. This is a completely unfair comment. It is also a somewhat racist view, because if an American, French or a German company has certain guidelines for you to work on, they are not supposed to be restrictive. But if it were to come from somewhere in the East, they become difficult! Why would that be so? Toyota, one of the largest corporations in the world, has successfully sold cars in developed, under-developed and developing economies. They have a huge wealth of experience. And wouldn't it just be fair to assume that they bring some experience to the table that they want to share and work by? I could name so many European brands where you have grids on which you operate and are allowed to change only the picture and the headline! My question to you would be, show me another person who has done it as well as Toyota on every front.

Q. To what extent then has Orchard been able to charter the course of Qualis and the way it has shaped up in India?

A. When I say we involve ourselves completely at every level of our client's business, which holds true for all brands. We work in close association with Toyota as also with Dentsu as it too handles the brand across many countries. I really fail to understand why a partnership is always discussed in terms of, are you more equal or better than the other partner? All I can say is Qualis has been the most successful MUV in this country without a shadow of doubt. It has redefined the category with the insight that Indians are gregarious people, family life is important to them, they like to perhaps travel in large groups, and by demonstrating how a product like Qualis makes sense for them by empowering them to do just that. One has to thank Qualis for making the MUV category what it is today!

Q. You have worked in Delhi, Mumbai, and now in Bangalore. How are the southern markets different from the so-called theatres of national advertising?

A. The one significant difference in the southern markets is that relationships here are very strong. I don't think people put relationships to test here everyday. That does not mean corporations here are in any way behind in terms of aggressiveness in the marketplace, or the ability to build large corporates. I think it is the value system that is there for good. This obviously has two implications for any new entrant in the market. Firstly, there cannot be any overnight success without proving yourself some way or the other. Secondly, you have to be truly professional and you can't just bluff your way through.

Q. You just said people here don't put relationships to test everyday. So what is the scope for growth in the south given that the number of 'significant' clients here are still very few?

A. There are two ways of looking at this. One is to ask, is there a huge market like Mumbai or Delhi? No, there isn't. The other question is, is there a significant market? Do I have the ability to create a reason for existing in that market and being able to do sustainable and good business? I think the answer to the latter is yes. When I came to the market here, almost everyone said, there is no scope for growth, there is no room for another agency to come in as the established ones had not shown any (growth) in the last few years. Two-and-half-years later, I don't feel that way. If you create a good product, there is a significantly good business proposition in the city.

Q. So are you happy with the way Orchard has shaped up? What are your targets now?

A. I am delighted with the way the agency has grown. I mean that in overall terms - the kind of work we have done, the kind of business we have and the kind of talent we have today. Looking forward, we would want to become a truly national agency. The idea is to grow big in Mumbai and move on to Delhi. This should be done in the next 24 months. Then we will truly be a national agency. We should be a Rs 70-crore agency in terms of capitalised billing by this year.

March 17, 2003
Bangalore
You can write to Nitish Mukherjee at
nitish@orchardindia.com